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ПРОДАНО! прицелы- Schmidt & Bender 12.5-50x56mm PMII ( 1 )

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Автор
Тема: ПРОДАНО! прицелы- Schmidt & Bender 12.5-50x56mm PMII
pavel12095@mail.ru
10-11-2009 01:24 pavel12095@mail.ru
новые, в наличии. Киев+ пересыл

http://www.schmidtundbender.de/pm-ii/12-5-50x56-pm-ii-p-10.html

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Браун
10-11-2009 01:48 Браун
А такой http://www.schmidtundbender.de/field-target/12-5-50x56-field-target.html?

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"Field-target - is good for you!"

pavel12095@mail.ru
10-11-2009 11:37 pavel12095@mail.ru
таких нет- есть только фото в каталогах.
Браун
12-11-2009 23:58 Браун
Понятно. спасибо
когда появятся, я первый!

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"Field-target - is good for you!"

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Али-Баба
13-11-2009 00:58 Али-Баба
Сетка?
korova
13-11-2009 12:16 korova
quote:
Originally posted by Али-Баба:
Сетка?

"Автомобиль может быть любого цвета, при условии, что этот цвет - черный." (С) Генри Форд.

Там один вариант сетки.

225 x 225

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Браун
14-11-2009 01:51 Браун
Очень люблю эту фирму, но эту сетку на этом прицеле не понял
korova
14-11-2009 09:43 korova
Макс, а какая сетка нужна? Мил-Дот на х50 займет все поле, если вообще поместится. На дальности, на которые расчитан прицел, по сетке стрелять не принято. Все поправки вводят "механизмом ввода поправок". Если поправок в прицеле не хватает, стрелять по нижней точке.
ИМХО, другой сетки в этом прицеле и быть не может.
sailor
14-11-2009 11:36 sailor
quote:
Originally posted by korova:
На дальности, на которые расчитан прицел, по сетке стрелять не принято. Все поправки вводят "механизмом ввода поправок". Если поправок в прицеле не хватает, стрелять по нижней точке.
ИМХО, другой сетки в этом прицеле и быть не может.

Неужели? Есть опыт? Какие дистанции? Или так - язык почесать?

Браун
14-11-2009 12:52 Браун
Ну и как помешали бы промежуточные точки?

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"Field-target - is good for you!"

Mess
14-11-2009 16:15 Mess
особенно порадовало про поправки - их в этом прицеле аж 12моа!!!
korova
14-11-2009 17:36 korova
Признаю, глупость написал.
DBoronin
15-11-2009 18:44 DBoronin
quote:
Originally posted by Mess:

особенно порадовало про поправки - их в этом прицеле аж 12моа!!!


че серьнзно? и че с ним делать таким... может не минут а милов? перепутал наверно.
StartGameN
15-11-2009 20:24 StartGameN
Та ну не может быть. У него ж на барабан размечен на 60МОА, на фотке видно...
NIKITIN75
17-11-2009 13:39 NIKITIN75
А такого прицельчика нету:Schmidt & Bender Police Marksman 4-16x42 LP CM Military PM Riflescopes with P4 Illuminated Reticles
Mess
17-11-2009 13:45 Mess
саш - а он будет лучше 3.5-15*50 найта?
NIKITIN75
17-11-2009 14:09 NIKITIN75
Месс точно пока не знаю. Но могу сказать следующее: стрелял здесь с прицела с 35 трубой и с 30-ой. субъективное мое ощущение, что все-таки с 35-ой чуть посветлее при том, что он был с 42-ым объективом, а 30-ый с 50-ым. И попросил задать вопрос одного нашего знакомого на Найт по поводу где можно глянуть какие сетки и их параметры они ставят на свои FFP. Буду ждать ответа. Расскажу
VBR
3-12-2009 00:17 VBR
quote:
Originally posted by StartGameN:

У него ж на барабан размечен на 60МОА, на фотке видно...


Судя по барабану это 60 больших делений, которое состоит из 8-ми малых. На барабане указано 1 клик - 1/4 МОА. То есть в одном большом делении 2 МОА. Тогда получается 120 МОА (много!).
Может быть автор прояснит картину
Mess
3-12-2009 00:53 Mess
там где 60 - это механизм в сантиметрах
pavel12095@mail.ru
3-12-2009 00:55 pavel12095@mail.ru
120 кликов в 1 обороте барабана, 5 оборотов=600 кликов по 1/4 МОА

150МОА

vyacheslav
3-12-2009 01:33 vyacheslav
скорее - таки 120МОА

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рустам1
3-12-2009 10:57 рустам1
quote:
120 кликов в 1 обороте барабана, 5 оборотов=600 кликов по 1/4 МОА

150МОА


Взять тогда что ли.Сетка жаль не очень подходящяя и кольца под него блазер не делает.
VBR
3-12-2009 13:39 VBR
Уважаемые коллеги, согласитесь 120 МОА, а тем более 150 МОА - это очень много!!!
Если бы это было так, то этот прицел сразу же прилепили к какому нибудь 408 СТ, и забыли бы про 22-й Найт.
Мне кажется, что на барабане ошибка в цене делений 1 клик - 1/4 МОА, или в разметке делений 1-8. И эта ошибка скорее всего в цене делений. У меня есть прицелы с 1/4 МОА, и с 1/8 МОА. И на них большее деление равно 1 МОА, т.е. разбито соответственно на 4 или 8 малых. Здесь же как то нелогично получается в одном большом делении 2 МОА.
Вот люди тоже выясняли, даже у немцев спрашивали http://www.snipercentral.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=22280&view=previous&sid=f540acf49561cef4f0d86f39b505c694
Выяснили:
Elevation:
Double Turn 1/4 MOA counter-clock-wise 65 MOA
Double Turn 1/4 MOA clock-wise 65 MOA
Multi Turn 1/8 MOA counter-clock-wise 75 MOA
Multi Turn 1/8 MOA clock-wise 75 MOA
Multi Turn 1/4 cm clock-wise 175 MOA

Автор указывает:

quote:
Originally posted by pavel12095@mail.ru:

120 кликов в 1 обороте барабана, 5 оборотов=600 кликов по 1/4 МОА

150МОА


Тогда если принять во внимание выясненное (Multi Turn 1/8 MOA clock-wise 75 MOA), то получается не 150 МОА, а 75 МОА, что тоже очень прилично!

С уважением

P.S. Прошу автора понять меня правильно, я ни коим образом не пытаюсь опорочить прицел, просто интересно, и наверное не только мне, разобраться.

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pavel12095@mail.ru
3-12-2009 14:55 pavel12095@mail.ru
написал запрос немцам- выясню.

в паспорте нет описания именно этого прицела-старый паспорт.

на барабане сверху наклейка 1/4 моа ,а на барабане сбоку-выгравировано 1/4 моа
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рустам1
16-12-2009 21:28 рустам1
Ждём ответа по поправкам.
sergey z
19-12-2009 21:57 sergey z
...Там на барабане вертикальных поправок в цифрах 1...2...3...4...и т.д ,по моему до 12-13 градуировано количество моа... Т.Е.120-130!...Но при установке прицела без наклонной базы %20-30 поправок уйдет... На ШиБах клики можно не считать, ориентируешся(в светлое время) по цифрам... Например:Надо сделать поправку в 23 MOA...Крутишь до 20 и дошелкивашь 3....

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С уважением, Сергей.

sergey z
19-12-2009 22:02 sergey z
...И после обнуления прицела поправки у ШиБа работают только в одну сторону, ну может6-7 кликов в другую...

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С уважением, Сергей.

stepan 33
21-12-2009 10:02 stepan 33
Интересует прицел для FT,есть новости? Я второй на очериди за Брауном.
308 Win
5-1-2010 23:53 308 Win
http://www.schmidtundbender.de/pm-ii/12-5-50x56-pm-ii-p-7.html
Мне кажется там 12 МОА по горизонту и от -5 до +65 см (вместе 70 см) по вертикали.
Но больше всего врут про поле зрения
quote:
Sehfeld m/100 m
21,7 - 6,7

По моему там не хватает одного нолика, т. е. не 100 метров, а 1000.
А то с таким полем зрения на 100 ему позавидуют многие загонники
V_Junior
6-1-2010 00:42 V_Junior
quote:
Originally posted by рустам1:

Взять тогда что ли.Сетка жаль не очень подходящяя и кольца под него блазер не делает.

На Блейзер можно поставить Вивер, а кольца на 34 мм купить у меня!

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Никто так не любит говорить на тему человеколюбия, как трусы и предатели... Впрочем, говорить - это все, что они умеют...

рустам1
6-1-2010 11:03 рустам1
quote:
На Блейзер можно поставить Вивер, а кольца на 34 мм купить у меня!

Спасибо, учту .Но остался самый главный вопрос по запасу поправок.
pavel12095@mail.ru
14-1-2010 19:37 pavel12095@mail.ru
прицел в резерве.
рустам1
15-1-2010 00:21 рустам1
По запасу поправок что нибудь прояснилось?
pavel12095@mail.ru
15-1-2010 13:28 pavel12095@mail.ru
на конкретный вопрос о запасе вертикальных поправок немцы отписались-если стрелять далеко нужен кронштейн с наклоном....
кино и немцы...
ded68
15-1-2010 15:39 ded68
quote:
кино и немцы...


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рустам1
15-1-2010 19:13 рустам1
To Ded68.А пишуть то?В двух словах.
pavel12095@mail.ru
16-1-2010 00:34 pavel12095@mail.ru
в статье пишут американцы 64 моа
рустам1
16-1-2010 01:58 рустам1
quote:
в статье пишут американцы 64 моа


То есть также как и Найта?Я так понял что статья о сравнении этих прицелов.
ded68
16-1-2010 02:34 ded68
quote:
Я так понял что статья о сравнении этих прицелов.

Не совсем сравнение, NF для сравнения, как один из самых "употребляемых" и проверенных для дальней стрельбы, с высокой кратностью и тонкой сеткой.
quote:
А пишуть то?В двух словах.

В двух - заШиБительный прицел, равных которому мало .
В чем "хитрость" данного S&B?
Вы "обнуляете" прицел и затем "обнуляете" барабаны поправок, в итоге у стрелка все те же 64MOA... +Удобство пользования барабанами с индикаторами и т.д. 64МОА достаточно при использовании .308 для дистанций 1200-1300yd, но для британской армии эт "по барабану", т.к. они перешли на .338 Lapua Magnum (для своих снайперов)...

Тонкая сетка, как "найтовская" NP200 (здесь похоже херня какая-то, нет у Nightforce такой сетки . Следует читать - NP-2DD 0.1875MOA center dot), само собой сетка во второй фокальной. Сайд-фокус совмещен с подсветкой, как у NF.

Выложил бы полный перевод, но "пальцы отвалятся" набирать стока текста. Если кто-то не поленится - оригинал статьи прикрепляю ниже.


PS
You could say that this is the scope the world has been waiting for - the world of long range rifle shooters that is - be it civilian or military! We waited for what seemed a lifetime for S&B to come up with a 5-25 but thankfully they have followed up quite quickly with the very desirable 12-50 power. Having said that, although it's been 'available' for quite a while, do you know anyone who has one? Have you seen a review of one? The likely answer is 'no' to both questions but Target Shooter has one!

Undoubtedly, Schmidt & Bender are at the very top of the optics 'tree' - or should I say 'rifle optics' for as the S&B website points out, they don't make binoculars, cameras, spotting-scopes and the like - they make riflescopes, pure and simple and they arguably do it better than anyone else. Until they introduced their 5-25 however, they had not offered a scope to really excite the serious long-range competition shooter. S & B have always concentrated on the civilian hunter-market and the serious Police/Military user and for some unknown reason, a ten-power scope was once regarded as 'sufficient'. This was perhaps true ten or fifteen years ago but Nightforce changed all that and we suddenly realised that it was much easier to hit your target if you could actually see it! If you are using a rested-rifle, you just can't have too much scope-power.

Twenty-five power is now regarded as 'the minimum' for anyone who shoots serious long-range competition and if you walk the line at any of the GB F Class League shoots or a 1000 yard benchrest shoot, you won't see much below 32 power. Yes, Nightforce offer a 12-42 power and they don't come much better than Nightforce but, when I speak to shooters about their 12-42's, most prefer to use them at lower power. I own two 8-32 Nightforce scopes and I must say they are excellent on full power - particularly the BR version and of course, we now have the remarkable 10-60 power March scope but there are too few out there to give any meaningful feedback. Now Schmidt & Bender are finally in the game can they offer anything that others can't?

When was the last time you twiddled your scope-turrets the wrong way or lost count of your clicks? I've been around long enough to know better but I'm certainly not immune. If you use a Schmidt, you just can't make that mistake. For us, it's an embarrassment and dropped points - for a police marksman, it could be a disaster. S & B always worked on a single turn of the elevation- turret to take you from zero to 1000 yards - foolproof.

However, even with a 34mm body-tube, the 5-25 Schmidt wouldn't adjust from zero to 1000 yards in a single turn of the turret for any of the popular cartridges, so they devised the 'lighthouse' style elevation-turret which displays a yellow indicator when you get onto the second rotation. The same turret appears on the 12-50 and it's still as ugly but now most shooters have already seen it and you don't get those strange looks.

The bottom 'white' scale gives us 32 minutes of elevation and then up pops the indicator and we are on the top 'yellow' scale for another 32 MOA, taking us to a whopping 64 minutes of elevation. To the civilian shooter, this pop-up indicator might seem to be a bit a novelty but it works and that's the important thing.

OK, you might be thinking - 64 MOA is no big deal, my cheapo Chinese jobby gives me that. Yes, but you inevitably 'lost' half of it just mounting and zeroing the scope. With the Schmidt, you zero, then reset the turret and you still have your full 64 MOA - that's the difference and that's impressive! Of course, if your mounts are way out of alignment, you could still lose some adjustment.
Although 64 MOA seems an awful lot of adjustment, it will still only take you out to 12-1300 yards with a .308 but it will nicely take the 338 Lapua Magnum out to around a mile and don't forget, the British Army have ditched the 7.62 Nato in favour of the 338 Lapua Magnum as their sniper rifle cartridge.

Why aren't all scopes made this way, you might ask. Well, in lots of cases, it isn't necessary. For example, benchrest shooters love top-quality optics but rarely adjust their scopes. GB F Class League shooters rarely shoot at less than 800 yards so a scope with modest adjustment combined with a 20MOA tapered scope-rail will be more than adequate.
The mildot reticle - previously the first choice of S&B - ideally must be placed in the first
focal-plane. The whole point of a mildot reticle is its range-finding ability. Everyone is offering mildots - even the Chinese but seemingly they don't realise its purpose and the mildot reticle is placed in the second focal-plane. In other words, its size doesn't alter as you zoom-in on your target - the mildot is therefore only useable as a rangefinder at one magnification and seldom is this the top magnification. What's more, you will need the manufacturer's instructions to determine the setting at which the mildot can be used as a true range-finder. Clearly farcical for the professional user and a total waste of time for the target shooter as we always know the distance we are shooting at. However, the mildot can at least be used to judge 'aim-off' accurately and for this reason - providing it is fine enough - it is still a valid competition reticle and certainly preferable to the once-popular 'duplex'.

Thankfully, with the PM11/P, Schmidt have finally acknowledged the target shooter and their 'sport' reticle is offered in the 2nd focal plane - in other words, it stays the same size irrespective of the power setting and we don't now end up with a uselessly thick reticle at max. power which could easily obscure the F Class shooter's tiny half MOA V bull! The 'sport' reticle is very similar to the Nightforce NP200 reticle - a tiny central dot with horizontal lines either side and a vertical line below with another dot at the bottom. Excellent for the target shooter, offering precise aiming and horizontal levelling.

As I mentioned at the beginning of this review, these scopes are still as rare as the proverbial 'rocking-horse manure' and the only reason we have this one for test is down to Laurie
Holland, who somehow managed to get his hands on a 'sample' and has now loaned it to me. Not only that, Laurie has also mounted it on his 6BR Remington - a proven accuracy tool in 600 yard benchrest competition - plus, he has even brought me some ammo.! All I have to do is shoot but first, we'll have a closer look at the Schmidt.

That 34mm body tube is finished in the usual satin-black hard anodising and there are rubber-rings to aid grip on the zoom-ring and the 'one-turn' ocular focus. All figuring is tasteful and incised into the aluminium so that it won't wear-off with use and click-value is marked in quarter- minute divisions on this scope but no doubt a metric/mil version is available.
Overall length is 417mm - about the same as the Nightforce NSX - and it tips the scales at two and a half pounds with the A.R.M.S rings. These rings are about the only ones available for a 34mm tube -remember, S&B make scopes - not mounts!

The object and ocular lenses are again similar in size to a Nightforce at 56 and 35 mm. These lenses are ground from special batches of Schott Werk glass. This glass is only made in small batches and if it doesn't come up to the demanding Schmidt and Schott standard it is not used. This in itself could place
restrictions on the output/availability of these scopes. Both have anti-flare coatings of course and the body-tube internals have also received an anti-reflective treatment. The accompanying literature claims that the scope is waterproof to a depth of three metres, which is nice to know as we all have to shoot in the rain - frequently!

A few years ago, scopes had two turrets, then three and now four!. The previous PM 11 model had an 'either or' choice - side-focus or illuminated reticle - now, we can have both. An illuminated reticle has no merit for the target shooter and sensibly, our scope has just three turrets. The side focus will take us from 50 metres to infinity in a single rotation and the windage turret offers 16 MOA in either direction.

Let's do some shooting. After focussing the reticle with the eyepiece adjuster and a couple of zeroing shots on my 100 yard target, we're ready to put the Schmidt through its paces. The first test is a 'return to zero'. We fire one shot on full-power, then wind-down the zoom-ring to the minimum setting and fire another shot. Few scopes now fail this test and the Schmidt comes through with flying colours with both shots touching.

Test number two is 'round the angles' . This test checks the accuracy of the windage and elevation turrets and ensures that the scope returns to zero again. We use the same aimpoint in the centre of a large target and I'm winding on 8 MOA of elevation and 8 MOA of right windage to place shot one in the top corner of the target. Before I take the second shot, I wind-off 16 MOA of elevation and take another shot which impacts in the bottom right corner. Now it's 16 MOA of left wind for the third shot in the bottom left corner. Finally, we wind on another 16 MOA of elevation and take shot four. If you are following me, we now have a target with four shots - one in each corner and, if I wind-on another 16 MOA of right wind, the fifth shot should go through the same hole as the first - given the limits of rifle, ammo and the 'nut behind the butt'. The first and fifth shots are less than half an inch apart and by measuring diagonally, we can verify that the 'square' is a true square. The sides of the square should measure (16 x 1.047) 16.75inches - they actually measure 161/8 to 16 1/2 inches. This is an excellent result. Even expensive scopes can exhibit a 10% error - the Schmidt is less than 3% and as far as I can recall, this is the best result I have ever obtained. Eye-relief is about three inches for me.

Even shooting on a target just 100 yards away, I can tell that the Schmidt optics are something special and I can't wait to have a look at my favourite skyline electricity pylon about 6kms away. No scope has ever out-resolved my 8-32 Nightforce BR in this test though the 5-25 Schmidt ran it very close and the 8-32 Sightron definitely gave an equally sharp and more contrasty image so let's see how the big Schmidt fares. I've always reckoned that the lenses in my old 'benchrest' Nightforce have the edge on the NSX model so that's what I use as my 'benchmark' for scope testing. Not scientific but fair. With both scopes set on 32 power, I just couldn't see any discernable difference but the Schmidt was totally devoid of 'fringing' or chromatic aberration, whereas there was a small amount present with the Nightforce.

I mentioned earlier that shooters using the 12-42 Nightforce or the March preferred to use them at less than maximum settings - how would the Schmidt perform at its maximum. The answer? Superbly! When I would up from 32 to 50, the image quality was still there - pin-sharp, no fall-off whatsoever. This for me is the key difference between the Schmidt and its rivals - you will want to use this scope at full power, whenever the occasion demands.

So, the 12-50 Schmidt ticks all the right boxes - superb optics, side-focus, heaps of accurate adjustment and all the controls move with that precision feel which exudes quality. Any criticisms? A slightly finer crosshair/dot reticle as we use in benchrest would be my preference for target work and would a sun/rain shade be too much to ask? Otherwise - perfect!

At the present time, I can't give you a retail price for this scope as no one is currently advertising them but I would guess that it will be similar to the big March, which means that you may not get a lot of change out of two grand. Yes, that's a lot of money but this scope is the best in its class. Yes, the 10-60 March will match the scope on top-end power and it comes in a neater package and I would love to compare the optics but you just know the Schmidt is built like a tank and will give a lifetime of service. It comes from a European stable which offers an excellent 30 year after-sales back-up that includes a free 10 year service. For the professional user, it has no equal and it would certainly be my first choice for serious F Class competition though it would take my 308 F/TR rig way over the 8.25kg. weight limit!

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С уважением, ded68

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